~ Photo Cafe' ~ Photographers - Episode #49!
~ Chat Transcript ~
9th of December, 2023
"Photographer vs. Picture Snapper!"
H.12:00 PM SLT
[The following Episode #50 will be on:
6th of January 2024]
[12:03] Kika Yongho: Hello Photographers!
Welcome everyone with our last episode for year 2023! We’re glad you all could make it today, so we can wish you a great holidays season and a sparkling new year!
[12:03] Kika Yongho: As we’re entering in the “Holidays zone”, indeed, we decided to take a break. The following episode would have been too close to Christmas (on the 23rd of December), so we will reprise the bi-weekly meetings on the 6th of January, 2024!
[12:04] Kika Yongho: The Photo Cafe’ parcel will stay open to the public, as usual, for the whole period. So if you want to come, hang out, take pictures.. take gifts.. feel free! Speak about pictures: we will reopen on next January also with a new “In the Spot” photo! January->March indeed we have the “Winter” photo to be displayed! Who will be our new photo artist on display? … If you want to volunteer, IM me now!
[12:05] Kika Yongho looks around for a volunteer
[12:05] Kika Yongho: Alright, I give you a few more minutes, then I will select one of you! In the meantime, apropos photos again.. (it seems like a recurrent theme here!) I want to officially introduce you a new Flickr group we are endorsing and supporting. It is not a Photo Cafe’ group, but it has been made and it has many of us in its members, and it will send a notice weekly with the updates!
[12:06] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): I love winter and if none will do the volunteer for this even if I’ve already do the summer.. Kika let me know, I’m ready
[12:06] Kika Yongho: TY Once!!!
[12:07] Kika Yongho: The group is named “Weekly Themed Photo Challenges”, and you can join it here:
https://www.flickr.com/groups/14877525@N23/
A new different photo theme will be proposed to its members every week, during which you can post your related, newly posted photos! Yes: only photos taken in the same week will be accepted! Don’t be upset if old photos are refused/removed!
[12:08] Kika Yongho: Don’t forget also our ongoing exhibit by CelestialDemon: “Leviathan”, that you can admire again here on the land for a couple more months! You can take the info in the easel with the poster, buy the photos, and sign the guestbook!
[12:09] Kika Yongho: Also, there is a Xmas gift under the tree at the landing point in case you didn’t take already 😉
[12:10] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): Kika.. May I suggest my sim if anyone wants to take winter photos? It is open to everyone
[12:10] Kika Yongho: Thank you Once. But now.. Get ready for a new interesting discussion, themed “Photographer vs. Picture Snapper!” … Josephine, are you ready? I am gonna wish you all great seasonal holidays and pass the virtual mic to our host to start the chat! From my 2023 intros is all, I am roger and out!
[12:11] Josephine Delvalle: Dear photographers and artists, welcome to our last discussion for 2023.
Today we will talk about photographers vs picture snapper
[12:11] Josephine Delvalle: But before we do it, we need to define: what is photography as art and what is picture snapping. What are the criteria to separate photo art from photo snapping, what is an artist doing when taking a photo, what does an amateur do in contrast?
[12:18] Josephine Delvalle: To get started, let’s take a look back at history.
In the beginning, photography was reserved for professional photographers or wealthy people. The equipment was expensive, as were the chemicals used, and dangerous too.
That changed suddenly when Kodak brought a camera onto the market in 1888 that the middle class could also afford. Under the slogan “You Press the Button, We Do the Rest”, Kodak also took over the development of the images and the creation of the prints.
As a result, snapshots and vacation pictures flooded the ‘photo world’. Pictures snappers were born.
[12:19] Josephine Delvalle: The Photo-Secession club was founded in New York in 1902. The model was, among other things, the British photographer-artist association Linked Ring, founded in 1892, which pursued the same goal.
[12:19] Josephine Delvalle: They wanted to differentiate themselves from the picture snappers and establish photography as a fine art.
[12:19] Josephine Delvalle: So to speak, following the meaning of the word photography: The term photography is made up of the Greek photo for “light” and graph for “to draw” and literally means: to draw with light.
[12:20] Josephine Delvalle: Therefore the members of the “Photo-Secession” founded and followed the style of Pictorialism. But that or the different styles of photography is another topic.
[12:20] Josephine Delvalle: Let’s find out what criteria we use to separate photo art from photo snapping.
[12:22] Josephine Delvalle: What are the criteria to separate photo art from photo snapping, what is an artist doing when taking a photo, what does an amateur do in contrast?
[12:23] Bonach Ireton: C
[12:23] . S y m . ™ (symmetryskyline): C
[12:23] Josephine Delvalle: Bonach, please
[12:23] A. (ava.darkheart): C
[12:23] Bonach Ireton: I’d say photography as its name tells is light drawing life at the difference of a screenshot, then the post process is the same in both. Done
[12:23] Kika Yongho: c
[12:24] Josephine Delvalle: Thank you and Sym please
[12:24] . S y m . ™ (symmetryskyline): To me it seems the photosnapper’s goal is to capture history, e.g., document their trip or event. Where as the photographer puts in much more effort and strives to tell a story in an elegant way. Done
[12:24] Josephine Delvalle: nods, good definition, thank you Sym and Ava, your turn please
[12:28] . S y m . ™ (symmetryskyline): Q
[12:28] A. (ava.darkheart): I guess everyone is a snapper first as you say since taking pictures became available to the whole world. Only a few then decided to learn technique and then their pictures became art. But since I am definitely a snapper (i have 10k of pictures/years ) and it’s definitely for my own memories, but sometimes i try to choose the one that represents what i felt and not just what i saw. So where is the edge there?
[12:28] Sio Skytower: c
[12:28] Moonsoul Kiyori: c
[12:28] Josephine Delvalle: indeed Ava, Kika please
[12:29] Kika Yongho: I don’t have art background nor I define myself a photo artist. But “photographer” for me means my attempt to communicate and express my feelings and concepts through photography. I can be also a “picture snapper” at times, when taking instant pictures for other purposes (the numbers of the water consumption counter for example!) so without giving myself the artist title, I can see that as a difference for myself. Done
[12:30] Josephine Delvalle: grins about the water measure, good example, Sym, you have a question?
[12:30] . S y m . ™ (symmetryskyline): I’m curious how you would distinguish between a professional portrait photographer – someone who does weddings or graduation photos and picture snapper? They are professional photographers, but still snapping photos. Done.
[12:31] Josephine Delvalle: So, not every professional creates art every time?
[12:32] Josephine Delvalle: we keep Syms question in mind and go on with Sio
[12:32] Sio Skytower: I have been associated with ‘art’ via RL work in marketing/advertising with many things including movies and live events: things like the circus or Disney Ice shows. I’ve had the benefit of meeting so many creative souls and when it comes to letting all that experience merge into what my mind desires to create, I try to let it flow – or as I say – “Hug the Muse” for as long as she’ll let me. And sometimes things flow and I want to do simple or very complex things with or without post process. I’m a humble picture snapper and love seeing what others create. I would love to find a profession in it and so far, it’s a wonderful hobby/creative release. I think all picture snappers are photographers at some level – I think? I’d never consider myself a professional….I get embarrassed if someone says I’m one! Done
[12:33] ᴍʌᴛᴛ (matthsuogan): c
[12:33] Josephine Delvalle: smile, very modest Sio, Moonsoul, please
[12:35] Moonsoul Kiyori: A picture snapper just takes a photo. A photographer processes it. But where is the fine line between the original photo and the one that is completely changed through process? Its a question rather than a comment. Done
[12:36] Josephine Delvalle: Can you explain ‘process’ a bit more?
[12:37] Moonsoul Kiyori: yes for example adding effects, textures, photoshop filters, draw on the original photo and I am not going into the AI direction
[12:37] . S y m . ™ (symmetryskyline): cropping?
[12:37] Josephine Delvalle: nods, yes, thank you
[12:37] Josephine Delvalle: Matt, please
[12:38] ᴍʌᴛᴛ (matthsuogan): i think a photographer is someone who takes photography seriously, with a deeper understanding of composition, lighting and storytelling. They invest time and effort in capturing meaningful images, on the other hand, a picture snapper is someone who takes photos casually or for fun, without much consideration for artistic elements. However, the distinction between the two is not always clear-cut, as someone can transition from being a picture snapper to a photographer by developing their skill and artistic approach, they intention to convey emotions and feelings through photographs blurs the line between being a snapper and a photographer. Done
[12:39] . S y m . ™ (symmetryskyline): C
[12:39] Josephine Delvalle: nods, indeed. Matt and Sym please
[12:40] . S y m . ™ (symmetryskyline): To follow on to Matt’s comment. I think some people have a natural talent that transcends picture snapper. Done
[12:40] Josephine Delvalle: smiles, yes
[12:40] Sio Skytower: c
[12:40] Josephine Delvalle: Sio please
[12:41] Sio Skytower: Oh! My comment was around having friends tell me “You’re a photographer” and how I try to wrap my head around that since I feel I’m simply doing what makes sense to me and simply apply it. My photos are mostly posed, and have a specific vision, so maybe we bounce between photographer and pic snapper quite seamlessly?
[12:41] Josephine Delvalle: Thank you
[12:41] Josephine Delvalle: Preparing the discussion I read about ideas at virtuelle fine art university side, there it was always said: art or professional photography means a planned process, designed work.
[12:43] Josephine Delvalle: and long lists what can be used to design a photo, to draw with artful light, but always in my mind showed up that famous photo we all know: the Napalm Girl from Nik Ut
[12:45] Josephine Delvalle: THAT wasn’t planned or designed days before it was just taken, but just a photo snapping not art or professional?
[12:45] DaneAlbion: c
[12:46] Josephine Delvalle: YOUR definition: art is telling a story or transferring an emotion covers it finally for me better. Dane, pls
[12:46] . S y m . ™ (symmetryskyline): c
[12:46] DaneAlbion: yes much photojournalism could be called ‘snaps’ based on a definition like that which could seem almost insulting. Done
[12:46] A. (ava.darkheart): well papparazi are
[12:46] Josephine Delvalle: Sym, please
[12:46] . S y m . ™ (symmetryskyline): Even thinking of Napalm Girl in my mind brings such intense emotion, that’s photography!! done.
[12:47] Josephine Delvalle: yes, for me too Sym
[12:47] A. (ava.darkheart): Q
[12:47] Josephine Delvalle: Ava?
[12:47] ᴍʌᴛᴛ (matthsuogan): c
[12:47] A. (ava.darkheart): Can we really call war’s pictures art in this specific case? Done
[12:48] Josephine Delvalle: Thank you and Matt please
[12:48] ᴍʌᴛᴛ (matthsuogan): The statement that art or professional photography involves a planned process and designed work is generally true, but it is not an absolute rule.
[12:48] . S y m . ™ (symmetryskyline): C
[12:48] Josephine Delvalle: Sym, please
[12:48] . S y m . ™ (symmetryskyline): Photography or art isn’t always beautiful and happiness. Real life – good or horrific is still art, hence photography. Done.
[12:49] ᴀᴇɢᴇᴀɴ (cooltang.flow): C
[12:49] Josephine Delvalle: Nods, I agree. Aegean please
[12:49] ᴀᴇɢᴇᴀɴ (cooltang.flow): agree with Ava, whoever took that photo would look the same because we would feel the same things about Napalm girl
[12:51] Josephine Delvalle: Also the very old masters painted battles. Art is transferring emotions, telling stories, good ones, bad ones, I agree with Matts and Syms definition of art
[12:53] Josephine Delvalle: And Nick Ut wanted to use the horror of that war and tell what it did to even innocent children
[12:54] Josephine Delvalle: Thank you for a great discussion and evening.
[12:54] Moonsoul Kiyori: Thank you too Josephine!
[12:55] Josephine Delvalle: Have a merry Christmas and a happy new year. We will meet again happy and healthy next year, 6th of January.
[12:55] Josephine Delvalle: And embrace the muses with Sio, but don’t squeeze them
