Photo Cafe' Lounge
~ Chat Transcript ~
15th May, 2022
H.11:00 AM SLT[ The following Episode #18 will be on:
Sat, the 28th of May H.11.00 AM SLT! ]
[11:04] Duraya: Hello everyone and happy Sunday, thanks for understanding we had to move the discussion!
[11:06] Duraya: For a start Kika will inform us about the oncoming workshops.
[11:07] Kika Yongho: Hello Photographer friends!
[11:07] Kika Yongho: Today we are going to talk about the upcoming workshops! After Elfi, Kitten had the Landscape Photography workshop in Art Korner Classroom last Saturday and it went very well too! Joanna talked about her personal approach to it. Including a detailed look at how two pictures were composed and put together.
[11:08] Kika Yongho: To follow, a practical one, led by Michiel, took place in Wonderland 2.0: a photography “Field Trip”! The sim was indeed hosting an incredible Photo Contest with 10K as first prize for the best creative photo! What better chance to gather a bunch of photographers and get to work? Great job!
[11:08] Kika Yongho: And, to continue the positive trend, don’t forget to join us for the upcoming workshops, that will be..
[11:08] Kika Yongho: “Field Trip @ Lost Beach” by Michiel Bechir .
The workshop will take place at Lost Beach sim on Tuesday 17th May, 10.30 AM SLT and it will be an exploration with different views on the sim by the artists present.
For any further information you can contact Michiel. Details will be also sent in the group.
[11:09] Kika Yongho: Coming next, in the month of May…
“Using Animations” by Andrew (andrewharlan55) .
The workshop will take place here at Photo Cafe’ sim on Friday, May 27th @ 10:00AM SLT and it will be about tips and tricks to using animations in photos (in Firestorm).
For any further information you can contact Kika Yongho. Details will be also sent in the group.
[11:09] Kika Yongho: Note: the workshop “Basic Editing using GIMP” by Frank Atisso has been postponed to June! Stay tuned for the next events of that month to be announced next!
[11:10] Kika Yongho: If you wish to know ALL the upcoming (and past) workshops, we have the XLS shared on google docs for you to browse.
For all the upcoming appointments, you can check our google calendar!
[11:10] Kika Yongho: And this is all for the upcoming workshops, mic goes back to Duraya! Thank you, I am done!
[11:10] Duraya: Thank you Kika!
[11:10] Duraya: Any questions, remarks and so on about the workshops?
[11:11] Duraya: Of course, you are still most welcome to offer your own workshop and share your skills, experience and knowledge with us! Please use the google calendar!
[11:12] Duraya: Let’s turn towards today’s agenda ‚editing ‘.
[11:12] Duraya: When I started with photography, I didn’t even know how to take pictures in SL.
[11:12] Duraya: I used the snipping tool and cut out what I wanted to keep as a memory directly from the screen.
[11:12] Duraya: Of course, I always had to disable names and find an angle where no floating texts showed. Annoying! And the result was so-so ..
[11:13] Duraya: By and by I learned how to use settings and windlight and was just slaphappy with the results.
[11:13] Duraya: Then I started planning shots. I used backdrops and built my own scenes. I wanted to capture something totally unique to me.
[11:13] Duraya: But I wasn’t completely pleased with the results.
[11:14] Duraya: Editing finally enabled me to change my shots so they best resembled my ‚inner pictures‘.
[11:14] Duraya: Thus for me editing shades the reality of the shot with a new context and meaning.
[11:15] Duraya: I think there is some basic editing everyone among us uses like cropping, contrast, color vibrancy and saturation.
[11:15] Duraya: These steps – as I understand it – underline and highlight what you had in mind with your shot. It doesn’t change it too much.
[11:16] Duraya: If you’re a great photographer, you shouldn’t need to edit your photos is one position you could take.
[11:16] Duraya: But you also have an option to use more to even heavy editing and change the original shot completely so you yourself won’t be able to tell where you started from easily any more.
[11:16] Duraya: As Kika mentioned there will be a workshop by Frank about basic editing using Gimp soon.
[11:17] Duraya: What do you use and recommend. Is editing important for your work? What is your idea of perfect editing?
[11:17] Kika Yongho: c
[11:17] Duraya: yes Kika please
[11:18] Elfi Siemens: c
[11:19] Kika Yongho: I post on Flickr either edited and non-edited photos. I think both have a value. For the non-edited I am happy and pleased with the result and I don’t feel I need to “add” more to it. For the edited ones .. sometimes I like and enjoy to “paint” over them like it was a canvas and I use the Nik Tools. There will be a workshop about them from me also. Done for now 🙂
[11:19] Duraya: thank you
[11:19] Duraya: Elfi your turn 🙂
[11:21] Elfi Siemens: First of all, the discussion about editing or not is as old as photography itself. Even in the early years in analog times, there have always been photographers who edited and retouched their negative images, using very fine brushes to paint directly on the negatives.
[11:21] Elfi Siemens: i’ve seen expos by very great photographers who used that as a personal style
[11:22] Elfi Siemens: anyways, i guess it’s an endless discussion whether you edit or not
[11:22] Elfi Siemens: i edit all my pics, using PS, Nik Collection and Filter Forge
[11:22] Franny Blame The Cat (francesca.pfeffer): c
[11:23] Elfi Siemens: its like Duraya said, you add what you had on mind, or retouch, or play with effects to make things look ‘special’… even if it’s only special for yourself
[11:23] Elfi Siemens: done
[11:24] Duraya nods
[11:24] Duraya: now Elfi mentioned it – I remember a picture of my grandmother – all sepia but the lips in bright red 😀
[11:25] Duraya: Franny you are next please
[11:25] Franny Blame The Cat (francesca.pfeffer): I think to edit or not depends on the purpose of our own work
[11:26] Elfi Siemens: c
[11:27] Franny Blame The Cat (francesca.pfeffer): ok as I said it depends on the purpose and who you are of course.
[11:27] Franny Blame The Cat (francesca.pfeffer): it depends on the kind of work because it’s not intended only for artists I think this subject
[11:28] Franny Blame The Cat (francesca.pfeffer): for example I’m not an artist but a simple blogger
[11:28] Franny Blame The Cat (francesca.pfeffer): I’m not a photographer in rl
[11:28] Franny Blame The Cat (francesca.pfeffer): but I have my own style that’s rarely is not edited
[11:28] Franny Blame The Cat (francesca.pfeffer): finished
[11:28] Duraya: thank you Franny
[11:29] Duraya: Elfi will you please complete your comment?
[11:31] Elfi Siemens: My personal opinion about “a good photographer doesn’t need to edit” – I think if the original image is badly composed or simply overall crap, all editing in the world won’t make it better 😉 but you can always add a personal “something” to a nicely made pic.
[11:31] Elfi Siemens: done
[11:31] Violette (violette.rembrandt): c
[11:31] Franny Blame The Cat (francesca.pfeffer): c
[11:31] Duraya: thanks Elfi
[11:31] Duraya: Violette is next
[11:32] Violette (violette.rembrandt): For cropping, contrast, color vibrancy and saturation i use the default editor of my laptop, then i switch in Pixlr for adding some grain, lights, twinkles, color effect…. and i finish with Photoscape to eventually add bokeh, texture, noise… i like to edit more or less depending on the initial quality of the photo i took ^^ I have a lot of fun with Photoscape lately XD
[11:32] Violette (violette.rembrandt): done 🙂
[11:32] Duraya: thanks Violette
[11:33] Duraya: and Franny what more is there – tell us!
[11:34] Franny Blame The Cat (francesca.pfeffer): I do agree with Elfi about what she said. I prepare my settings very carefully before to shoot a pic in sl with lights/windlights as well
[11:34] Franny Blame The Cat (francesca.pfeffer): rarely I shoot something I didn’t set
[11:34] Franny Blame The Cat (francesca.pfeffer): done
[11:34] Duraya: thank you
[11:35] Kika Yongho: c
[11:35] Duraya: yes Kika
[11:37] Kika Yongho: I just wanted to add about some “bad” photos that can’t be fixed with editing that there are different factors concurring to make a “bad” photo better. For instance composition can be fixed by cropping and contrast/brightness can be edited too.. So it depends, I don’t take extreme positions as some flawed photos I took were fixed by editing them
[11:37] Kika Yongho: Done
[11:38] DaneAlbion: c
[11:39] Duraya: Dane will you share please
[11:39] DaneAlbion: I disagree with the idea that good photographers don’t need to edit. Most scenes are edited in some way prior to taking the image, even more so here in SL where we can control so much around the setting. Is there is much difference between pre and post editing?
[11:40] DaneAlbion: done
[11:40] Elfi Siemens nods
[11:41] Duraya: I think you are right in a way Dane, we have a lot of control in here – I am not a photographer rl so I can’t say if there is a big difference – maybe once can answer that
[11:42] Elfi Siemens: c
[11:42] Duraya: yes Elfi please
[11:42] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): c
[11:43] Elfi Siemens: there definitely is a big difference between rl and sl photography
[11:43] Elfi Siemens: most obvious is: you have to work with the available weather, lol
[11:43] Elfi Siemens: you can’t derender things that are in the way, or people
[11:44] Elfi Siemens: if you’re not in a studio, you have to actually WALK around to find the perfect POV, not just cam around like in here
[11:45] Elfi Siemens: not to mention to crawl, kneel down or lay on the ground for a pic
[11:45] Elfi Siemens: done
[11:45] Duraya: thank you Elfi
[11:45] Duraya: onceagain will you please comment
[11:45] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): Efi has already answered rightly
[11:46] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): about take photo on sl everything has already been said and I’m agree with some of the statements I have heard. Sometimes I turn my shots to black and white, sometimes I don’t edit them at all, like the last two of my flickr, or I use ps .. it depends on what was my feeling before taking the photo that move me to do that
[11:47] DaneAlbion: c
[11:47] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): Is really easier take a good photo here, of course if you have a perfect web connection, time and a good computer
[11:47] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): you can check all variables
[11:48] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): and you cannot do the same in rl…
[11:48] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): also if you are a good photographer
[11:49] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): with time you can use the same techniques you have refined
[11:49] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): but the weather, your feeling that day and so much more things don’t assure to have the right result
[11:49] Kika Yongho: q
[11:50] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): also in rl I use both, unedited and edited
[11:50] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): one example is one of my rl work I’ve exhibited in my gallery
[11:50] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): composed by two images, unedited a worked with ps
[11:51] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): so.. you can do what is necessary for reaching you goal
[11:51] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): done
[11:51] Duraya: thank you 🙂
[11:51] Duraya: Dane, your comment please
[11:52] DaneAlbion: Its true RL editing before taking the picture is much harder but it is done.
There is an iconic image of an abdicating British monarch in the 1930’s in a car. The story goes that to get the picture the photographer threw his assistant in front of the car to force it to stop…thats extreme editing. Ultimately photography is all about manipulation in some way or other and it should all be embraced.
[11:53] DaneAlbion: done
[11:53] Duraya: thank you Dane – a dangerous manipulation I’d say
[11:53] Duraya: your question Kika please
[11:54] Kika Yongho: It is in theme .. I have a question for the RL photographers: we forgot to mention how much “control” and pre-editing you get on RL photos. Can say applying filters to the camera, using liths and such be considered a pre-editing like we do on SL adjusting variables and environment?
[11:54] Elfi Siemens: c
[11:54] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): c
[11:55] Duraya: Elfi please
[11:55] Elfi Siemens: to answer Kika’s question short: yes, lol
[11:56] Elfi Siemens: of course people use filters, or, for outdoor portraits you use reflectors etc
[11:57] Elfi Siemens: there’s tons of equipment you can carry around with you when you do outdoor shoots
[11:57] Elfi Siemens: (or have someone carrying it, haha)
[11:57] Elfi Siemens: but also in a studio, you work with tons of light and reflectors etc, backgrounds too
[11:58] Elfi Siemens: so yeah… but…. it’s still different than in SL, i think it’s easier in here
[11:58] Elfi Siemens: done
[11:59] Duraya: thank you Elfi
[11:59] Duraya: onceagain, will you speak please
[11:59] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): I didn’t have enough time to look for it in English.. so this is for Kika but anyone can search for it:
[12:00] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): kia è per risponedrti sull pre editing
[12:01] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): this is about how a shot can be thought about before being realized
[12:01] Kika Yongho: Wow
[12:01] Duraya: fantastic onceagain – I found that picture recently and always wanted to find out how it was taken!
[12:01] Kika Yongho: Yes I think Chrome can handle translations
[12:01] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): this is an iconic and really famous shot about Dalì
[12:01] Duraya: it’s incredible
[12:02] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): and explains that before photoshop everything can also be done
[12:02] Duraya: thanks for sharing once
[12:02] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): and there are several shots that can be analyzed
[12:02] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): done
[12:03] Duraya: thanks onceagain
[12:04] Elfi Siemens: its an incredible pic, but i feel sorry for the poor cats 😉
[12:05] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): also dalì 😉
[12:05] Kika Yongho: Don’t worry Elfi, cats plot revenge
[12:05] Duraya: cats always seem to smile when I look at them
[12:05] Duraya: but yes – it’s another strange ‘manipulation’
[12:06] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): is quite incredible how many “strange” thing you can do in dark room
[12:07] Duraya: as Elfi said – editing is an old discussion – I am glad we took it up anyway
[12:07] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): I think the best thing is to know all the rules to be able to use them or bend them to get what we imagine
[12:08] Duraya: thank you for your thoughts and for sharing your experiences
[12:08] Duraya: yes – we have a saying ‘forget knowledge’
[12:08] onceagain (manoji.yachvili): everything has already been said here by Elfi an Franny and most of you
[12:08] Duraya: but it means you have to be knowledgeable to be able to forget 😉
[12:09] Duraya: next episode will be on a Saturday again!
[12:09] Duraya: the 28th of May!
